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[RunOnCYanide]
Total posts: 78
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okay i'm going to run the 400 this spring track season. I wanna run a 55 or better by the end of the season.
My best 400 ever was a 66 flat. Anybody have any tips on how to improve my time in this race and any Workouts for the weekends.
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[gianluca]
Total posts: 131
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RunOnCYanide wrote:
okay i'm going to run the 400 this spring track season. I wanna run a 55 or better by the end of the season.
My best 400 ever was a 66 flat. Anybody have any tips on how to improve my time in this race and any Workouts for the weekends. |
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My goal, too, is 55 by the end of spring, but right now i have a 56 P.R. 66 to 55 is pretty hard for a 400 in just a season of running, though. However, you can definitely get it lower. A key thing about a 400 is upper body strength and core strength. Lift and do your core several times because its the end of a 400, when your body is tired and your form is breaking that the strong core will help keep it together for a hard finish. Also, form is key, Make sure you have a good long, easy stride. Practice you A-Steps and B-Steps.
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[RoyalWithCheese]
Total posts: 2519
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Workouts I've seen a lot of are:
Ten 200s at a sort of tempo pace, perhaps 33 seconds for you.
&
I like over distance too, do some 600s and 1000s.
BUT!
since you're taking about doing these on the weekend, I'd just suggest a good eight mile run instead. Go longer than eight if you can handle it.
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[Brad Hart]
Total posts: 79
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I'm just going to be brutally honest, I don't think it is possible for you to go from 66-55. I ran a 66 last year and I'm a distance runner. I would really happy if I were you and you went under 60, and that would be pushing it.
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[RunOnCYanide]
Total posts: 78
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Brad Hart wrote:
I'm just going to be brutally honest, I don't think it is possible for you to go from 66-55. I ran a 66 last year and I'm a distance runner. I would really happy if I were you and you went under 60, and that would be pushing it.
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Nothings inpossiple. Plus the 66 was last season, i'm in much better shape then i was last year.
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[Puffycheetos411]
Total posts: 77
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Well I would definitely like to see who we are dealing with, such as your class/age and the mileage you have been logging so far to see what kind of base you have before I'd give my workout suggestions. I like Royal's thoughts on it definitely. I think 200s and 400s at a solid pace for multiple reps always work well.
Since your pr is a 66 (open I'm assuming?) I would think, judging you have a base of at least 30 miles a week, that you should start at no less than 10 (no more than 14) sets of 200s starting at probably 40 and cutting down every other one. Just a though--try to keep a rest short for longer times and its ok to go a little longer on the faster times.
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[gianluca]
Total posts: 131
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Also, on your profile...on your races page it says you ran a 57.07 for 400m...?
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[RunOnCYanide]
Total posts: 78
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gianluca wrote:
Also, on your profile...on your races page it says you ran a 57.07 for 400m...? |
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a 57.07? i don't remember running that. Werid.
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[RunOnCYanide]
Total posts: 78
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Puffycheetos411 wrote:
Well I would definitely like to see who we are dealing with, such as your class/age and the mileage you have been logging so far to see what kind of base you have before I'd give my workout suggestions. I like Royal's thoughts on it definitely. I think 200s and 400s at a solid pace for multiple reps always work well.
Since your pr is a 66 (open I'm assuming?) I would think, judging you have a base of at least 30 miles a week, that you should start at no less than 10 (no more than 14) sets of 200s starting at probably 40 and cutting down every other one. Just a though--try to keep a rest short for longer times and its ok to go a little longer on the faster times. |
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My mileage....... yeah it sucks. I'm a sprinter so i'm lucky if i clock in ten miles a week. i used to have 30 mile weeks back in the day.
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[BrewPat]
Total posts: 5083
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RunOnCYanide wrote:
okay i'm going to run the 400 this spring track season. I wanna run a 55 or better by the end of the season.
My best 400 ever was a 66 flat. Anybody have any tips on how to improve my time in this race and any Workouts for the weekends. |
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HGH
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[Nick Ross]
Total posts: 1265
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i knew it was just a matter of time.
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[Puffycheetos411]
Total posts: 77
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RunOnCYanide wrote:
My mileage....... yeah it sucks. I'm a sprinter so i'm lucky if i clock in ten miles a week. i used to have 30 mile weeks back in the day. |
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haha i know what you mean, all you can do is just on some days after doing speed work, go for a run. You've got the speed you just need the endurance, a nice easy run a few times a week will do wonders
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[BrewPat]
Total posts: 5083
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Nick Ross wrote:
i knew it was just a matter of time. |
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I'm nothing if not consistent.
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[DCbakerTF]
Total posts: 35
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haha it is very possible to transition from a 66 to a 55.. my freshman year in high school i started at a 1:13 untrained of course because i had never ran a 400 .. at the end of the year i ran a 53. and now im in college about to break sub 50 for the first time.. so just train!
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[Scooby]
Total posts: 74
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DCbakerTF wrote:
haha it is very possible to transition from a 66 to a 55.. my freshman year in high school i started at a 1:13 untrained of course because i had never ran a 400 .. at the end of the year i ran a 53. and now im in college about to break sub 50 for the first time.. so just train! |
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you can do it!!! I agree train hard and rest hard... you'll go far
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[kyneff]
Total posts: 8
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DCbakerTF wrote:
haha it is very possible to transition from a 66 to a 55.. my freshman year in high school i started at a 1:13 untrained of course because i had never ran a 400 .. at the end of the year i ran a 53. and now im in college about to break sub 50 for the first time.. so just train! |
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In one season you went from 1 minute 13 seconds to 53 seconds? o.O
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[Tadpole]
Total posts: 26
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To the OP:
First of all, congratulations on choosing one of the great events in track to run. The 400 is the only sprint that requires some serious intestinal fortitude to run. Yes, the 800 is probably harder, but that doesn't diminish how nasty the 400 is. Anyway, I was once in your situation. My freshman year of high school, I ran a 65. I eventually got down to 53, then 52 in college. So I am not some phenom or anything, but I think I do have some relevant experience to offer.
First, consider the forum on which you are asking this question. It is full of distance runners. You are going to get a lot of advice when asking people about sprints. Most of it will not be in your best interest. One guy suggested that you get your weekly mileage up to 30 or 40? Awful idea. Absolutely awful. The 400 is 90-95% ANAEROBIC. You do not need mileage for the 400. Here is what you need:
1. Quality 150, 200, 300, 400, and occasionally 500-600 workouts. This is your bread and butter. This is how you build the speed endurance and the anaerobic capacity to sustain near-maximal effort.
2. Speedwork. Not what a distance runner would call speed work, but top-end speed work. By that I mean in and outs, flying 50 or 60 meters sprints, accels, etc.
3. Strength and power, in two different ways. First, through hill repeats and core work. This carries you through the last of the race. Also, by squatting with heavy weight and low reps to build power. Then, ploymetrics.
4. Natural talent. Unfortunately, I didn't have this. Sprints are much more difficult to improve at than distance events, because it's harder to improve your top-end than it is your aerobic capacity (which, as discussed previously, is almost completely irrelevant to the 400).
5. Technique. Arguably more important in sprinting than distance running. You need to come out of the blocks well, and then run as fast as you can while remaining RELAXED, particularly on the back stretch.
6. Guts. A lot of really fast sprinters don't make great 400 runners because they don't have the cojones. This isn't just about the the last 100, it's especially about the 3rd 100. The third 100 sucks, and a lot of people lose focus on it. It's as simple as recognizing that your pain is near its end and that it's not going to feel much better if you slow down. Obviously easier said than done.
Hope some of this gives you an idea. Honestly, your coach should be the one having you do this stuff. I wouldn't start just adding workouts on your own without talking to him or her first.
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[rstreet3]
Total posts: 197
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Tadpole wrote:
To the OP:
First of all, congratulations on choosing one of the great events in track to run. The 400 is the only sprint that requires some serious intestinal fortitude to run. Yes, the 800 is probably harder, but that doesn't diminish how nasty the 400 is. Anyway, I was once in your situation. My freshman year of high school, I ran a 65. I eventually got down to 53, then 52 in college. So I am not some phenom or anything, but I think I do have some relevant experience to offer.
First, consider the forum on which you are asking this question. It is full of distance runners. You are going to get a lot of advice when asking people about sprints. Most of it will not be in your best interest. One guy suggested that you get your weekly mileage up to 30 or 40? Awful idea. Absolutely awful. The 400 is 90-95% ANAEROBIC. You do not need mileage for the 400. Here is what you need:
1. Quality 150, 200, 300, 400, and occasionally 500-600 workouts. This is your bread and butter. This is how you build the speed endurance and the anaerobic capacity to sustain near-maximal effort.
2. Speedwork. Not what a distance runner would call speed work, but top-end speed work. By that I mean in and outs, flying 50 or 60 meters sprints, accels, etc.
3. Strength and power, in two different ways. First, through hill repeats and core work. This carries you through the last of the race. Also, by squatting with heavy weight and low reps to build power. Then, ploymetrics.
4. Natural talent. Unfortunately, I didn't have this. Sprints are much more difficult to improve at than distance events, because it's harder to improve your top-end than it is your aerobic capacity (which, as discussed previously, is almost completely irrelevant to the 400).
5. Technique. Arguably more important in sprinting than distance running. You need to come out of the blocks well, and then run as fast as you can while remaining RELAXED, particularly on the back stretch.
6. Guts. A lot of really fast sprinters don't make great 400 runners because they don't have the cojones. This isn't just about the the last 100, it's especially about the 3rd 100. The third 100 sucks, and a lot of people lose focus on it. It's as simple as recognizing that your pain is near its end and that it's not going to feel much better if you slow down. Obviously easier said than done.
Hope some of this gives you an idea. Honestly, your coach should be the one having you do this stuff. I wouldn't start just adding workouts on your own without talking to him or her first. |
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overally i agree lifting is arguable i prefer to work the entire body for the long sprint-middle distance runners and also i like to tell people to stay away from squats and lunges because they can hurt you easily if done wrong. Dead lift seems to work well to work multiple joints and in some way work your muscles in the most race specific way.
the flying or top end speed, plyometrics, ballistics, and lifting all help reverse the size principle recruiting your type II B fast twitch muscle fibers first so this also is good.
But the thing that i disagree with and the science supports my opinion is that the 400 is 90-95%anaerobic. The old oxygen debt calculations said that the 400 was about 25% aerobic. however recently these have been proven wrong. And the oxygen debt is now calculated in a much more accurate method called Accumulated oxygen debt method, or AOD. The AOD says the 400m is 46 +/-4%.
just to add some validity this is from New studies in athletics, no. 4 and also is again cited in Science of Training and Performance.
What this means to me is that a 400m runner needs to do a good deal of Vo2 max work before they start their lactate buffering type workouts(90% 95% 100% vVo2. However before this in order to get the full gains from the Vo2 work you need to have some general aerobic conditioning. therefore having you mileage up to 30-40 is not exactly a horrible idea.
Also don't forget that aerobic conditioning dictates anaerobic potential.
If you are riding the roller coaster through the year in terms of your results then you should take that to mean that you aerobic conditioning is lacking.
Also what was said earlier was a great comment. Train hard and then rest hard.
Side note the new AOD also says that the
800m = 69 +/-4% old wrong calculation 50%
1500m = 83 +/-4% old wrong calculation 65%
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[rstreet3]
Total posts: 197
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soooo.... i just re-read that and you can tell i wasn't paying much attention when i typed most of it. Sorry if its hard to read.
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[philipagreen]
Total posts: 2
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I would do more circuit training activities that incorporate bodyweight. For example:
Clock lunge (2 per side)
Spiderman push up (15)
Swissball jackknife (15-20)
1 minute rest, repeat two more times with 1 minute rest between
Go into:
Burpee pushup jumping squat (15)
Pull-up (or inverted row) (8-15)
Cross plank (30)
1 minute rest, repeat two more times with 1 minute rest between
Go into:
1 arm squat press with dumbbell (any weight) - 12 reps each arm
Swissball leg curl (double or single leg) - 15-20 reps
Hyperextension (reverse abs)
1 minute rest, repeat two more times with 1 minute rest between
That's one example of the plethora out there, but I would suggest getting yourself to have a working capacity of 45 minutes or more with circuit training. This circuit would take that much time and a little more. After you have reached the work capacity after about 3 weeks may be switch to circuits with free weights and some reduced bodyweight-only exercises, then try to maintain a working capacity with plyos involved. AND, you can never do too many hills (start with a short distance then increase with each week).
All the best
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